I know there is already a thread for the RC series ( http://tinyurl.com/RC-DISCUSS ), but based on a question Bruce M posed to me in my gb, I thought it appropriate to start a new thread, especially since the Republic Commando series is on the brink of becoming the Imperial Commando series.
The 1st book in the series is due out in October. I should have finished the whole RC series by then.
I'm about to finish True Colors, and then, finally, dive into Order 66. Really looking forward to that one. Really enjoying the series as a whole. I did think TC had some moments that dragged on. But I am just addicted to this mini-universe within a universe Karen Traviss created. She's brilliant.
Anyway, here a link to the SW.com first look for the first Imperial Commando book (aptly titled!!):
http://www.starwars.com/vault/books/20090318news.html
Any resemblance between the cover of the book and my avi is purely coincidental :P
Jul 15, 2009 5:42 AM | Report Abuse reply
I think it will be really cool to FINALLY see what is going on in that empty 20 year period (or was it 19? Damn, my math is failing me...where's my calculator!). The Empire has, duh, always fascinated me, and I want more Tarkin, Vader, and stormtroopers!
I also wonder if Traviss will do like every other author and make ALL the stormtroopers realize that the Empire is bad and try to leave at one point or another. Personally, I am sick of this; how is the Empire even IN power, given that everyone is running to the other side faster than you can say "Bail's your uncle"? Why can't people write the Empire more like Zahn (sorry, but he's one of the few to get it right, imo), and make the Empire something worth fighting for, something that the soldiers can be proud in?
Okay, now THAT is going too deep, even for me. But yes, am excited about this series. Traviss is the best person to write it, imo.
Jul 15, 2009 7:47 AM | Report Abuse reply
Thanks for setting up this forum Stymie.I am looking forward to the new book.Imperial Commando looks good ,at least the cover does.I am definately looking forward to a good book.
It is a honorable profession to be a soldier,granted war isn't pleasant,nor is it easy transitioning from one governemt to another.
( case in point the birth of the USA)
A soldier does his duty,and indeed lives by a code.My late father ,and indeed myself and family have all served.
This book begins with Darman and others who now serve the empire.It will be interesting to see how this story turns out.Darman & Omega SQD are my favorites,but now delta & omega together as 501st definately is going to get attention.We have a man still grieving for the loss of his beloved wife,he is seperated from his son....his brothers and more. This is going to be a serious ride.With the other mandalorians raising Darman's son we know this and other matters are going to greatly motivate the mandalorians in ways the readers have yet to imagine.This book my friends is definately going to be a wild ride.Oya we have a book to score!!Have a great day everybody.
Jul 15, 2009 9:09 AM | Report Abuse reply
I don't think she will be able to dothe same thing with the stormtroopers--even the clone generation after the original Kamino-based clones. The Empire will shift to Zahn's concpet of spaarti cylinder clones, which are fully grown in a much shorter period of time. However, they are much less efficient. Possible--more like probably--explaning the general innefectiveness of the troopers, as seen in the OT. Those guys just had terrible aim. LOL
Not even sure if the series will cover the whole twenty year period.
By the way, Kirby, I was thinking you should post your reviews here (either in full or provide a link to them). Have you read Order 66 yet? It's in paperback now. Be cool if we read it around the same time and compared noteds as we read.
Bruce, are we sure all those characters you mentioned wil be in the 501st? Will we also see KT bring Captain Rex into the mix? Vader even? That would be interesting.
But I agree with one sentimement: Oya indeed!
Jul 15, 2009 3:44 PM | Report Abuse reply
I don't think she will be able to dothe same thing with the stormtroopers--even the clone generation after the original Kamino-based clones. The Empire will shift to Zahn's concpet of spaarti cylinder clones, which are fully grown in a much shorter period of time. However, they are much less efficient. Possible--more like probably--explaning the general innefectiveness of the troopers, as seen in the OT. Those guys just had terrible aim. LOL
Not even sure if the series will cover the whole twenty year period.
By the way, Kirby, I was thinking you should post your reviews here (either in full or provide a link to them). Have you read Order 66 yet? It's in paperback now. Be cool if we read it around the same time and compared noteds as we read.
Bruce, are we sure all those characters you mentioned wil be in the 501st? Will we also see KT bring Captain Rex into the mix? Vader even? That would be interesting.
But I agree with one sentimement: Oya indeed!
Jul 15, 2009 3:44 PM | Report Abuse reply
Darth Vader is a go,as are members of omega & delta.The 501st does have Rex in it on it's unit roster,as to whether he will be in the book thats a toss up, but if some of the other things I suspect to have happen,especially mandalorian wiseare a go well then my friend we are definately indeed going for one seriously wild ride. In close man ,just have one thing to say OYA!
Jul 16, 2009 1:17 AM | Report Abuse reply
I would LOVE to share my reviews! Please remember, that they are my opinions. HC and TC were written as I normally write reviews, right after reading the book. TZ was written based on a few notes and may contain inaccuracies as I wrote it several months after reading it!
Links: http://woswwar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=darthathena&action=display&thread=2481 (Star Wars only)
Amazon.com Crystal Starr Light (All my reviews)
Jul 16, 2009 7:31 AM | Report Abuse reply
Hard Contact
"Not all soldiers wear uniforms, ma'am"
Thanks to a Star Wars book club, I got to reread this amazing Clone Wars era novel!
Four clone commandos have been assigned an important task: land on Qiilura, apprehend scientist, Uthan, and destroy her work on biological agents targeted at clones. But a Mandalorian mercenary, the desperate natives, and a green Padawan might keep them from their objective.
What I Liked:
There is so much to love about this book, it's hard to decide where exactly to begin.
I guess I should start at the beginning: the characters. So many books (even--or maybe especially?--Star Wars ones) tend to generalize. The sleuth is usually down and out but incredibly smart. The scientists are either sexy, sassy, ladies or complete dorky nerds. Jedi are omnipotent, all seeing. The bad guys are plum out of a children's book (replete with giggling over their latest plot device, which is lame, lame, lame). Personally, I am sick of this. I want to see REAL people. People who are like me. So-so at their jobs, average in looks, maybe not quite happy with themselves (and not because they don't have any friends, being supermodel material after all--cue eye roll), trying so hard to figure out why the heck they are there.
And then Karen Traviss starts writing Star Wars. First off, THANK YOU DEL REY!!! Karen Traviss is a superb, intelligent writer and the perfect fit for the Republic Commando novels. She can do what so many others fail at (particularly in this book): she writes about real people.
Hokan is a mercenary. He is not a giggling bad guy, but an intelligent, well-planned Mandalorian who doesn't kill because it's fun but for a purpose. He even shows a fondness and appreciation for a subordinate (something sorely lacking in other novels).
Etain Tur-Mukan is probably one of the best written Jedi in the universe. Seriously, here is a woman with a conflict. She has no idea what to do, doesn't even think she can do it if she could, and isn't a super-Jedi either. She doubts, she questions, she is unsure. In fact, she totally blows up at Darman when he calls her commander and is later chewed out by Jinart. This is rarely done in the Star Wars universe and is a breath of fresh air in a sewer plant.
Then, the clones. Karen Traviss gets the award for making each clone identical yet separate. Niner is a no-bones leader. Fi is more sensitive, more worried about the feelings of each member. Atin buries his thoughts behind mechanical equipment. Darman is amazing, tender yet tough. Through him, we see the unique balance of hardened warrior and childlike innocence, something one would never have expected from clones bred for the sole purpose of killing another.
The other characters (Jinart, Uthan, etc.) are similarly well done, but in a much smaller scale, since they are more of background characters.
Moving on from characterization, the number of characters is perfect. We have, as primary characters, 4 clones, one Jedi, and one Mandalorian (Jinart, the Weequay, the other Jedi, and Uthan being secondary). There is just enough time to develop each character, not too much to interrupt the action and plot. One complaint I had about Death Star was its huge cast. It was challenging to get close to any of the characters when there were 20 or so of them. Karen Traviss keeps the cast small so the audience can grow close to them. It works perfectly.
I feel the balance in Hard Contact--characters, Mando'a history, philosophical musings on the usage of clones and the actual plot of the story--is perfect. KT spends enough time to make you feel for the characters, get acquainted to the Mandalorian lifestyle (which had never before been revealed), ponder the humanity of the clones (though this got to be a little much at times--see below), and do what commandos are supposed to do: Fight! The action in the story is prominent, cementing its Star Wars-iness, but while it is a big part of the book, KT doesn't cut back on character.
Another (small) favorite comes when Hokan mentions to Uthan (another ho-hum lady, not some sexy vixan--Thank you again, KT!!) about Hard Contact! I love it when the author slips in the title of her book somewhere in the actual book. I know it can't always be done, but this was totally awesome!!
What I Didn't Like
It was very challenging to visualize the Gurlanins. They are vaguely described as having a snout, being black, and reminding me of either wolves or panthers. Other than that, their shapeshifting, their appearance is cloaked in mystery, making it hard to imagine the actual creature.
Another problem I had was towards the end. At this point, I felt the message of clones being real people was too heavy-handed. Etain mentions it at least twice in the last ten pages besides the conversations previous. I understand the concept and appreciate KT making the effort to talk about something this controversial, but I think she could have backed off a bit.
Finally, I do not appreciate Etain's being practically commended for defying a superior officer (when she is demanding the Laati stay on Qiilura until Fi and Niner return from their mission). Anywhere else, she would have been courtmarshalled for defying General Zey's orders. I understand this is a fiction novel; however, I feel that the scene could have been modified so as not to seemingly promote this fantastical scenario.
Dialogue/Sexual Situations/Violence:
Star Wars dialogue in the form of "fierfek".
A Weequay attempts to attack Etain. Other similar acts are referred to circumspectly.
This is a story about commandos and battle. There are tons of battles, lots of gun fights, deaths, explosions, etc. While most aren't gory in nature, they do exist.
Conclusions:
Amazing! KT has done for the Star Wars Clone Wars era--and for the Star Wars universe in general--what many of the other novels (The Cestus Decpetion and Jedi Trial) could only dream of doing. In Hard Contact, the audience is transported into the middle of a commando mission. There is no doubt about the authenticity, the realness of the surroundings, weapons, actions.
KT not only has created one of (if not the) best action novels, but she has also done the unbelievable: she has created a Mando'a culture, catapulted the clones into humans, and has portrayed Jedi in a real life sense.
With these amazing accomplishments under her belt, it would be impossible for me to give this novel anything less than a 5 stars, even with the minor road bumps.
Jul 16, 2009 7:32 AM | Report Abuse reply
Triple Zero
PLEASE NOTE: I wrote this one based on months-old notes. If I reread with a fresher knowledge, my opinion may change.
Doesn't hold a candle to "Hard Contact"
I did not think that I would like Hard Contact. I was afraid it would be another crappy Clone Wars novel (along the lines of Jedi Trial and The Cestus Deception). This is why it took me forever to purchase it. But when I finally got around to reading it, I was extremely impressed. Couple extraordinary characterization with an uncharted plot about clone commandos during the Clone Wars, and you have one of the best--if not the best--Clone Wars novels written. So, when I saw there was a sequel, I didn't think twice about purchasing.
Plot:
A Separatist cell is discovered on Coruscant. Delta Squad along with rival squad, Omega Squad, are sent to flush out the enemies and dispel the threat. Further, Etain is reunited with Delta Squad and Kal Skirata joins the young clones he trained to aid them in their mission.
Good:
Karen Traviss is a good author. She writes in a clear manner and appears to actually know what she is writing about (she doesn't skip over the tough stuff and focus on the easy stuff).
It's great to see our favorite clone squad, Delta Squad, along with another squad instead of the typical Anakin, Obi-Wan, and gang. Futher, it was cool to see the men who helped train the clones and to learn more about the enigmatic Mando culture. I liked learning about the culture and enjoyed the characters using the language (but more on this later). Etain, Skirata, Ordo, and Fi--whom I greatly enjoyed reading about--have good solid characters. And the plot--a terrorist cell--was something we can easily associate with, especially after the events of 9/11.
Bad:
The first chapter was good, but it quickly got drenched and bogged down in sluggish movement and introducing too many characters. Six characters are either exceedingly minor (such as Laseema, the unimportant Enacca, and Qibbu) and make you wonder how they attained a slot in the Dramatis Personae. Perhaps, it was to bear more resemblance to the established Star Wars Universe.
The plot is not convoluted--disarming a terrorist cell--yet Traviss does not seem to know how she wants to proceed. The whole plot occurs over many pages that are mostly devoted to dialogue such as "I feel guilty about making/using these boys as slaves" from Skirata and Etain. The actual terrorist cell dismantling occurs over a very short period of time, which is cut up and placed in small doses between the large amounts of talking about what people are going to do.
Which brings me to my next problem: Etain. She was mildly annoying in HC but now she is unbearable. Leaving Darman in HC, I felt they were more of friends. Now, after no contact (other than Etain's perpetual "reaching out to Darman in the Force" which she either does or talks about doing each time anything is written in her view), Darman and Etain fling themselves at each other the moment they reunite. What could have been a sweet, slow romance is ruined with the "I couldn't stop thinking of you" "Me neither--let's hop in bed" routine. And how she ends up pregnant--please. This happened in TCD and didn't work. Now, it crops up here (borderline plagiarism). Does every stinking Clone Wars novel have to contain a battle romance (although no where near as corny as Odie and Erk's romance in Jedi Trial) and an illegitimate child?
Another problem I had with this book was paradoxically also one of the few things that I loved about this book--the Mando Language and culture. While I loved learning about the language and culture, I found the in-text definition and the glossary repetitive. I almost felt Traviss was treating me like a complete, incompetent @#$% who is incapable of turning a couple of pages to the glossary. Further, the in-text definition slowed down the read and felt unnatural.
Characters I longed to know more about--Atin, Vau, Jusik, even Niner from HC--were mostly neglected. Even Darman's feelings about his forbidden romance with Etain are ignored (those would have been very interesting). The entire Delta squad we know and love from HC was overlooked in an attempt to cover all 16 characters presented in the book.
Dialogue/Sexual Situations/Violence:
Language is restricted primarily to made up Star Wars phrases. Darman and Etain sleep with each other. Violence is typical Star Wars fare.
Overall:
All in all, this book does not live up to its predecessor, HC, but is no where near as bad as TCD or JT. The plot is not bad. The pacing is too slow, many of the characters are mere cardboard faces, and the Mando language is forcibly hammered into the reader's head. The book could easily have been condensed from its 400+ page format into something more enjoyable. Three stars is probably too high, but two stars (the same I gave for TCD) is too low. If I had the choice, I would give 2.75 for good writing and a new story.
Jul 16, 2009 7:33 AM | Report Abuse reply
True Colors
The Cloned and the Restless
I loved Hard Contact , the first real Clone Wars novel (in my opinion), but was disappointed with the slogging pace, political and ethical diatribes, and the hefty, largely unexplored cast of Triple Zero. But I wasn't so disappointed that I didn't pick up True Colors when it came out last year.
Plot:
The Clone War continues, and Skirata has vamped up his search for Ko Sai, a Kaminoan who may hold the keys to reversing the age acceleration in his rag-tag band of clones. But, Palpatine has ordered Delta squad to hunt after her too, along with a separate team from Kamino. The race is on, and the question hovers inside each clone (and those who love them): will the clones ever be able to live a normal life? And what will be their future after the war ends?
Good:
What made Triple Zero so much of a disappointment (compared to Hard Contact) was the fact that much of the action and great characters present in HC was missing in TZ. But the same can't quite be said of True Colors. At about the sixth chapter, TC picks up with an intense scene with Etain forcing the colonists of Qiilura to leave and pretty much maintains that speed throughout the book as Skirata and the Nulls search for Ko Sai (before Delta Squad), and Omega Squad infiltrates another battlefront on Graftikar.
Furthermore, characters introduced in TZ get more exploration, and more opportunities exist to dig into the dirty subjects. Etain, Skirata and Darman get the limelight, of course, but so do Ordo, Mereel, Sev, Besany, and my new personal favorite, Walon Vau, who is very interesting in TC as a cold killer with a methodical, almost unemotional outlook on life. Fi's character gets stretched in an interesting manner. And I think Traviss will go down in Star wars history as being the first to write using a Kaminoan character (very nicely, may I add--Good job, Karen). These characters discuss meaty topics such as desertion, humanity, and life after the Clones Wars--all in a logical, insightful manner that will exercise your mind. And Delta Squad can always be depended upon for cracking a joke that will have you in stitches (look out for when Fixer and Sev go diving!).
Lastly, I was never so happy to see that Traviss got the memo about the annoying "double definitions" that she did in TZ. I like her exploration of Mando culture but hated how she would have her characters say something in Mando, translate it in English and then have it appear in the glossary at the end. In TC, Traviss remedies this problem. THANK YOU TRAVISS!
Bad:
While in some aspects TC is better than TZ, in others, it is much worse:
[1.] For the first five chapters, the book reads like a soap opera. Etain misses Darman. Darman misses Etain. Besany brags about boyfriend, Ordo (when did this happen?!?!). Ordo is clueless about Besany. Fi feels left out in the romance department. Skirata wants the girlfriends for all of "his boys" and is instantly concerned about Etain's pregnancy and health. I was so close to giving up on it. And in the last two chapters, the soap opera resumes with the birth of Etain's baby, Darman's reaction, etc. (oh, please!).
[2.] Certain things are repeated twelve too many times. For example, count how many times each that Traviss has some character bring up:
[a] how Skirata saved the Nulls from the Kaminoans' knife
[b] how the ARCs almost killed the clone kids to save them from the Separatists
[c] how much *fill-in-the-blank* misses *so-and-so*
[d] how badly the clones are being treated/how invisible they are/how they are being used (etc.).
Repetition isn't necessarily bad (helps remind the reader) but is excessive when done more than once a chapter (Traviss does it as frequently as twice a page).
[3.] There are way too many characters. Frequent characters include two Mandalorians, three Jedi, eight commandos, one treasury agent, one clone commander, an ARCs, and three Nulls. This does not include all the other people mentioned in the Dramatis Personae who have bit parts, such as Corr, Jaing, Maze, Rav Bralor (a terrible female Mandalorian whose character could be summed up as Kick-A** GirlTM), and Jaller Obrim. It gets to the point where I thought that Traviss had included everyone in the book--including the Twi'lek Pilot! Traviss, remember HC? There were 6 characters: 4 commandos, Etain, and the bad guy. Too many characters = less characterization.
[4.] The pacing was off. The first 16 chapters cover about one week while the last four cover about a month. It was as if Traviss wanted to hurry up and have Etain give birth. She could have easily extended some of the action to cover a longer time or had Etain be closer to term in the beginning to compensate for the uneven pacing.
[5.] And then, there were some scenes/actions/comments that really drove me nuts.
[a] My personal favorite: Besany (the absolutely gorgeous woman rejected because of her beauty *eyes roll*) pulls out a 25 cm (~10" cake) that she just *happens* to keep for guests she never has *eyes roll* and gives it to Mereel to give to Ordo. Who keeps a cake this size for guests that never come? How old is this thing? And how did this cake come to Ordo without looking like crap?
[b] Etain looks three months pregnant but has, in her spare time (during a war?), accelerated her pregnancy so she is actually six months pregnant. Any woman will tell you, if she is six months pregnant, she will look six months pregnant. And how is it she can accelerate a pregnancy in the few hours she has off by a whole 3 months?!?! And more importantly, how does a Jedi, who's not supposed to have these relationships, know how to do this?
[c] Skirata has his good points but is hard to relate to as he is perfect in any way. He knows when to be harsh, when to coddle women, when to jump to concern when a baby kicks (a completely normal phenomenon, Kal...didn't this guy have three kids? Why doesn't he know this?), is smarter than the entire Jedi Order, and is always right. Gary Stu, anyone?
[d] Why are all Jedi that aren't Jusik and Etain bad guys? I mean, if the Jedi isn't a Mandalorian wannabe (Jusik) or pregnant with a clone's baby (Etain), they are out to kill all the clones and imprison them in slavery or are stupid, oblivious @#$%s (Zey, Mace Windu). It appears that Traviss loves her Mandalorians and hates the Jedi.
[e] I don't understand how Fi could have been seriously damaged while Darman, only a few feet away comes away practically unscathed. If someone would please explain that to me, I would be greatly appreciative.
Dialogue/Sexual Situations/Violence:
There is cursing, but it is in Mandalorian.
Etain is pregnant with Darman's child. It is insinuated that Besany would like to sleep with Ordo.
Etain is hurt, and her pregnancy is threatened. A war between civilians, and clones breaks out. Several clones are harmed: explosions, fire-fights, and hand-to-hand combat. A man is bit by another man. The Nulls want to kill Ko Sai. Pretty much what you would expect from a Star Wars novel.
Overall:
Somewhat better than TZ, somewhat worse, TC has come back in some ways to what made HC a hit. TC has more of the intense action, intrigue, gut-splitting humor, and open discussions on what being a human is, who is eligible for gift of humanity, if clones can defect (really interesting), what rights clones deserve, and what will happen to the soldiers if greatly injured (or at the end of the war). Still, melodrama, a huge largely stereotyped cast, and repetitiveness really make it hard to appreciate the good points. Therefore, three stars, in a tie with TZ.
NOTE: The novel comes with a short story called "Odds". About the best thing I can say about this short story is "Odd". It seems more of a prelude or Chapter 1 than a full-blown short story. Not to say it wasn't interesting, just a poor short story.
Jul 16, 2009 7:35 AM | Report Abuse reply
I usually dont disagree with the general,but in this case I must.Etain had it right ,she was willing to defy Zey for a reason.The reason is this "No man left behind" In other words I will never leave a fallen comrade.This is one belief that is integral to the military.My time spent in the army ,and of course being former rescue I believe this with every fiber of my being.
Zey blows off clones in general,where as Etain doesn't.She needed to make a clear example of how far she'd go. This was needed to inspire her men,and indeed gain their trust & confidence.A good CO will lead by example.
Also this proved to jinart that Etain had guts.It erased the no confidence problem.The more Etain was around Omega sqd the better & more capable soldier she became,It even boosted her abilities as a jedi to.
I think this series of books also shows how deluded & self absorbed the Jedi could be,Etain & Bardan are definately the exception to the rule,they have no problem with being real,or showing their feelings. This is very important.If your men,those under your command know you are "real",they will indeed follow you anywhere.
I enjoyed the first 3 books of the Republic Commando series. Order 66 was just skimmed, will probably wind up buying it,especially now that it's a paperback.I am hoping that the Imperial Commando series will rock,especially when it comes to the title.When somebody mentions the 501st anywhere it gets attention right away.I can hardly wait for the book to hit the market.
Jul 16, 2009 9:18 AM | Report Abuse reply
Granted, I can understand that, but I also don't like how Traviss makes it seem like all the Jedi (Well, not all, but all but Etain and that other one) could care less about the clones. For me, this seems to go against everything the Jedi stand for.
Also, while Etain was right in staying behind for her men, she ought to listen to a superior officer. It isn't always the truth, but the superior officer is privy to information she is not and if she won't listen to him, she could endanger her men--the ones remaining--even further.
That is just my take on it. Again, I had to REALLY look hard to find problems with HC, and although it may not be obvious, I did adore HC and rated it 5 stars, hands down.
Jul 16, 2009 9:54 AM | Report Abuse reply
you mean Bardan Justik right Kirby. It seems that Venku, even though not a true Jedi in the sense of the word, does have some sympathy towards the clones as well in Invincible.
Jul 16, 2009 5:36 PM | Report Abuse reply
If a order is considered questionable/unethical,and or immoral a senior officer can have his order overtunrned.Etain exhibited abilities even beyond other Jedi,it was even unknown to her,especially with that tunnel sequence, and her knowing where omega(especially Darman was at any given time).Skirata hated Zey just for that reason. personally had a man like that been operating with us and he compromised us because he thought his idea was better I'd launch a inquiry and courtmartial procedures.People like the Zey Character are a danger to have in the field, this was probably why he was mostly a desk jockey.
Jul 17, 2009 12:47 AM | Report Abuse reply
I almost forgot though,if the jr.officer has witnesses to the senior officer's mental status at the time to this will help, though if the jr.officer was wrong this could go against the accuser as well.These matters have a way of giving all parties involved the proverbial black eye.
Jul 17, 2009 1:10 AM | Report Abuse reply
Bruce, I probably will get the Imperial Commando series but I just hope Darth Vader kills some jedi, I think it sucks he did not kill Jax Pavan in the coruscant knight series though I did enjoy reading about him taking out Typho. Please reply.
thanks
Jul 17, 2009 10:02 AM | Report Abuse reply
Nadeem, How have you been man? I am definately going to pick up imperial commando,it does look likew a book that can go the distance.Darth Vader is going to be in it,and as we all know any jedi is still a target.In all honesty Darth Vader is going to get some jedi kills.There is no doubt about that in my mind,he his driven by vengeance and a few other things to.Have a a great weekend.
Jul 18, 2009 1:02 AM | Report Abuse reply
Stymie,hope I didn't offend you man,You do have a excellent thread and forum here,I amjust glad you let me post here.
Have a great night/weekend.
Jul 19, 2009 9:04 PM | Report Abuse reply
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